Defeating Madara

Well I essentially think Madara is god now which means defeating him will not be easy, for anyone. So here is where we'll discuss who will defeat him, how they'll do it, why why you think they can.

Before things get started, I want to point out a few things:

Madara has access to the infinite Mangekyo Sharingan, and whatever new jutsu it may have. He can use izanami which gives him a free get out of death pass.
He has that crazy space-time justu, with his own pocket dimension to go with it. (He might have somethings crazy hiding in there.) He can completely control the Kyuubi.
He has well over a century of shinobi experience. Madara also now has the Rinnegan, and his own Six Paths group of Immortal Edo Tensei warriors, all of which are former Jinchuuriki, and if they are like Roshi who has lava release, they have powerful kekkei genkai at their disposal. Oh and with the Rinnegan Madara can use any chakra nature (unless that only counts for people who got it naturally.) he can also summon Gedo Mazo, which was shown to be capable of destroying thousands of shinobi in an instant.
And plus an bunch of other god-stuff at his disposal.

A

I liked him better when he was Tobi

(Dango Shop Scene ftw.)

Madara's EMS is yet to be seen in his current form, so I'm dubious about whether he can still use it. Itachi mentioned that he was a shell of his former self and not worthy of being called the greatest Uchiha.

Izanagi is a game changer if it's used at the right time, but the cost remains right? He'd lose a sharingan. From the looks of it he has loads of them in his little lab but it's a hefty price. I don't think Izanagi can really be used often.

The intangibility does make him near enough invulnerable to any attack. Coupled with moving at nearly the speed of light he's damn near untouchable.

The Jinchuriki 6 paths is rediculous maybe a job for Itachi, Bee and Naruto once they are done with Nagato? perhaps the rest of the kages will have to jump into the mix as well.

I'm unsure about the nature manipulation too. But he did infer that he considered himself to be the 2nd Rikudou. So that would indicate that he has mastered to the 6 paths.

Gedo mazou seems impossible to stop, what in the world is it anyway?
Oh and whats the other god stuff? you've got me curious bro

Well I think it's clear that Itachi more or less hates Madara, so I can't be too sure if Itachi's words were 100% true...or if they were, there's no way they are now, after all the beefing up Madara has been doing lately. And maybe he doesn't need EMS...he knows everything there is to know about the Sharingan, even enough that Kamui, which is probably the most dangerous since Amatarasu, is completely useless on him. (Well at least that's what he said to Kakashi.)


And Izanagi, or rather it's true power, which is currently being referred to as "Banbutsu Sozo" [Creation of All Things] is actually a Rinnegan technique, which Madara has. That "Banbutsu Sozo" technique was used by the original Sage of the Six Path. The ability comes from using imagination and Yin chakra to create shape and form from nothingness. Then by adding the physical energy, or Yang chakra, he gave life to whatever it was he made. The sage used this ability to split the Ten-Tails into nine tailed beasts. And Madara also said that Izanagi is based off this technique this one... That said, Madara could pretty much create anything he imagined (if he had the chakra to do so I'm guessing...the limitations weren't explained...) So maybe he could use this technique the in the same way he would use Izanagi, but without the sacrifice. (Scary idea.)

And that intangibility is really nasty. The closest to defeating him was Konan who used Six Hundred Billion explosive tags, and still failed to kill him in the end, due to the intangibility+Izanagi wombo combo...So even if you do manage to "kill him" he could use Izanagi (or better possibly), and it's like nothing happened. Plus trying to kill him the second time will be drastically harder.

Now I like that idea of Itachi, Bee, Naruto, and the other Kages joining together.
Looking at it that way, there is a bit of hope...but then there's Gedo Mazo...I don't know exactly what it is but I have an idea... That thing houses all of the tailed beast. I wouldn't be surprised if that thing was an incomplete Juubi. That said, if it really is the Juubi, this battle is going to be pretty much impossible to win. I for one welcome my new Infinite Tsukuyomi overlord.

I guess we;ll have to wait and see what's up with the nature thing.

And lastly that..."gods stuff." well with the rinnegan, Madara can use the outer path of pain, which basically controls life or death, and that whole Banbutsu Sozo is pretty godly as well. Not to mention that now he's capable of being host to the Juubi, I know there might be more, but I can't think of it right now.

Well as said the Rinnegan and most of all his space/time ninjutsus bring Madara close to God-tier. As said by Itachi Madara's need to obtain the jyuubi and become his host reveals a need that he has for more chakra that will allow him as said to become complete meaning that the current shape that he has is not.

Now what that could mean. Sure he has the ability to use many powerful jutsus but at what extent we don't know yet. Sure he strives to become the next Rikudo but all the stuff that he has obtained or the process that he has taken to reach that goal only allow him to be an approximation hence the difference between his Izanagi and Rikudo's Izanagi.

There are of course costs for each and every jutsu that he uses and of course he also seems to be in a hurry to obtain the two remaining Bijuus which speaks volumes of the time limits that he has on these abilities.

Complete or not, he's not some featherweight ninja, especially at this point in the story. He may have been above a kage before implanting the Rinnegan, but now, now he's on his own level it seems. And his limitations are almost insignificant. This guy can do a lot of damage with his jutsu. What limitations there are don't matter if everyone is wiped out before he even reaches them.

Gedo Mazo wiped out thousands in minutes, or seconds whatever...Of those thousands, no one was even capable of slowing it down. He called out something that powerful without showing any signs of exhaustion. With that thing wreaking havoc on the battle field, he really has no need to do anything else. Which in the most ideal situation (meaning no one pulled off the miracle of defeating the Gedo Mazo statue, and forcing him to resort to other jutsu), would mean Madara would have a ton of stamina left over, which I'm sure he could use to wipe the floor with the remains. Now the difference in Madara's Izanagi, and Rikudo's was the lack of the Rinnegan for Madara. Unless Madara does it again now that he has it, there's no telling how far from the Rikudo he really is.

And he's in a hurry because of the full moon. He can only use the Infinite Tsukuyomi during the full moon. All his preparations needed to be complete before then, as the next full moon would be a month away. There'd be no way for him make a second attempt without all of his support, which would definitely not survive to see that day.

The only who can tackle Madara and cause trouble is zombie Nagato in my opinion.
Considering the fact that all his previous weaknesses have been erased, he's pretty much near Madara's level. (It's impossible to kill him as well.)

And another thing.....doesnt Madara have ALL the pieces required in order to use Izanagi without penalty?(the non dying part at least) I dont think it's mentioned anywhere that the Rikudou needed the Juubi chakra in order to use his GMing powers.

About Madara's chakra.....the guy clearly has vast chakra reserves since he's using Shodaime's body/cells (one of the best bodies that ever existed)
Not to mention he's using Yamato as a battery as well.

Gedo Mazo is unstoppable, but it's just the storage for the bijuus. The body of the Juubi is sealed inside the Moon, remember?
Madara will most likely sync Sasuke to Gedo Mazo, and sacrifice his body or something.

The new 6 paths arent much trouble if u ask me....Naruto can possibly solo them by himself now. (or maybe with a lil distraction from KillerB)

Well that would be one part of the reasons why he is in a hurry. The other one is that the Gedo Mazo requires the other two Bijuus or it will eventually crumble. The statue is not everlasting so his hastiness most likely has to do with that.

After all this is why he was taking about a substitute. Something that would keep the statue up and preventing it from crumbling down.

Yeah he is a level of his own but I do believe that the reason why he hasn't taken and inserted himself in the first lines of attack in this war is because his body is still not yet ready for full combat.

I believe that Sasuke will be sacrificed or at least something damaging will be done to him. After all if it was safe then Madara wouldn't be so keen in keeping him around.

I cannot agree with Nagato being able to take Madar. I'm not saying that he can't pose a threat, it's just that his intangibility messes up a lot of Nagato's abilities.
Unless of course if Nagato had his six paths it'd be an entirely different story.
Also, his immortality means nothing really. Madara obviously knows some serious sealing justu, and that's one of the ways Edo soldiers can be put down. And that's only if he manages to free himself from Kaburochi's control.

And as far as we know, all that's needed for the true Izanagi is the rinnegan, which he has. But there's still a lot about it we don't know just yet.

And I had forgotten about shodai's cells...geez...Madar just got even more ridiculous.


And I know the real body of the Juubi is in the moon, but after Madara stole the 9tails chakra the G/S Brothers had, and that little bit of 8-tails chakra in the tentacle. Madara has a basic version of the Juubi, and it seems that all that's needed for a tailed beast to regain their body is just the chakra. Isn't a tailed beast just a chakra monster anyway? And when Naruto removed the seal suppressing the Kyuubi chakra, that thing was nearly recreated. Who's to say that the same thing couldn't happen with Gedo Mazo? It basically had a good fraction of the chakra the juubi had. What of that was released? Couldn't that become the juubi, in the same manner the Kyuubi's chakra almost did when Naruto Let it out?

and it might be possib;e for Naruto to solo the 6 paths, but...Madara has way more battle experience. It may be more than Naruto can handle.


And I had nearly forgotten that the Gedo Mazo statue would crumble...But technically that shouldn't happen now since he has the chakra of both the 8th and 9th tailed beast. It may not be all of it (Which is impossible anyway, since Naruto only has half the kyuubi chakra.) but it has to be enough to stop Gedo Mazo from breaking down, hmm? That substitute was the Kyuubi chakra from the G/S Brothers, and the Hachibi chakra from Killer Bee's tentacle clone thing.

And you have a point, Madara has avoided direct combat pretty much every time we've seen him. There's something too that, but can we be sure it's weakness? Even the fourt struggled against him, and he was one on best Kage of the time.
Considering that Madara did very little direct combat with the 4th and still gave him a hard time says a lot doesn't it?

And I can see Sasuke being sacrificed after Naruto defeats him, but that would sorta mean the end of the series right? The whole thing sorta revolved arouund rescuing Sasuke right?

Well Madara is an Uchiha first and foremost and like all Uchihas he doesn't do anything without first preserving himself so probably his inhibition to participate on the war in the front lines is because of the damage that he sustained when he fought Shodaime and also because his body has limits to what it can do. Well against the forth we saw Madara going into direct combat and actually being unable to win. He lost his ability to control the Kyuubi and eventually he lost the Kyuubi itself and plus he tood physical damage something that after Shodaime none else had done. I would say considering that Minato was fighting Madara and also having to deal with the Kyuubi did quite well.

The Gedo Mazo requires the souls of the Bijuus to avoid it from crumbling down. The substitute chakra might keep it from canceling itself but not from eventually crumbling down.

Well it would be a good way if lets say Sasuke gets sacrificed (the guy does need to get some sort of punishment for all the havoc that he has created) and then returned back to life once the Jyuubi is destroyed.

Well Minato never fully engaged the Kyuubi until after he drove off Madara, which seeing again, he did do exceptionally well against him.

But it's weird...Madara really didn't do much. In fact he's never really fought much in any of his battles. Most he's done was evade as often as possible. So what you said about his inhibitions made me think. Madara always puts full emphasis on evasion whenever faced with conflict. But that's insignificant...It's his method of evasion. Why have justu that grants intangibility? There has to be a reason why he has that makes contact with his body, it's easy to consider it's weakness, but what if there's some extreme value in his body remaining as immaculate as possible. After all, that's the point of intangibility. Then considering how we've never seen his full face, nor anything beneath his robes, would suggest that's he's hiding/protecting something seriously valuable, especially with his face. Everyone knows who he is, any yet he keeps his face hidden at all times. It's certain that what he's trying to hide is not his identity... So a full on battle would mean higher risk damaging/exposing what he's hiding, right? So we also have to consider that his inhibitions are attributed to him wanting to preserve something incredibly valuable.

And I don't think bijuu chakra is necessary for Gedo Mazo to survive. Nagato had it years before Akatsuki started the pursuit of the tailed beasts. He used it to defeat Hanzo and his forces when he seized control of Ame. It's the order in which the beast must be sealed that keeps it from breakings. Sealing the beast out of order disturbs whatever balance that needs to be maintained, which is why they had to capture all the beasts in numerical order.

It could happen. There's so many tensei jutsu, I wouldn't be surprised.

Yes but when he used in on Hanzo the statue had a totally different purpose and function. With the Bijuus the statue was something that even Nagato didn't use after that so it makes sense that the statue requires some things from the user. Actually the order didn't play much of a role since we know that the only thing that matters is for the Kyuubi to be sealed last because if not then the statue will crumble.

Well Madara's inability to use offensive measures by himself in his fights tells me that first Hashirama did a number on him and second that he is in a position that he requires the assistance of others and their means to succeed. After all he did used the Akatsuki extensively. If he could do it by his own he would probably do that so his inability to do so speaks volumes about his current shape.

Madara does seem awfully reluctant to go hand to hand these days. From the looks of it back in the day he would jump into a fight without a second thought. But maybe after the battle against the Shodaime he realised that it's probably not always the best way of doing things.

Alternatively the Shodai may have beaten him so badly that he just can't take the strain of fighting anymore. Either way he became an expert manipulator/infiltrator. I was a bit wierded out when Konan knew that he could only remain intangible for five minutes. Would indicate that he'd been pushed to his limit before curious to find out when and by whom.

This is how I think you could maybe deal with Madara's massive box of tricks.

EMS - don't think he still has it as he's never revealed it.

Teleporting - He solidifies as he teleports with Naruto's lightning speed he should be able to get to him as he turns solid.

Intangibility - Sustained attack for five minutes will force him to solidify then you can attack away.

New 6 paths - Bunch of strong ninja to take care of them Gai, Kakashi, Raikage etc.

Battle experience - Shikaku + Shikamaru if they have to think their way out of this situation those are the guys to do it.

Gedo Mazo - Hachibi vs Gedo Mazo maybe? you'd need something enormously powerful perhaps Itachi's Susanoo.

Rinnegan - Naruto overcame most of it's abilities whilst in Sage mode. Admittedly Nagato wiped out his RM mode by using preta path. So maybe Naruto needs to work on sage mode to counter Preta path like he did last time.

Izanagi - I'm still dubious that izanagi can be cast by anyone without a price being incurred. Danzo and Madara sacrificed sharingans to cast it before. Rikudou on the other hand created the Bijuu with no mention of penalty. I'm not convinced he had to sacrifice tonnes of chakra and I think it killed him. I know the story goes that he was reaching the end of his life and used it so the Juubi couldn't be reborn. But I think Izanagi is literally the power of creation and if that can be done with no cosequences then Madara is now invulnerable.

Rikudo's Izanagi was working as it did because he had the perfect union between spirit, eye and body. If we assume that Madara is capable of artificially getting all three then yeah perhaps he is that strong but in my opinion the only thing that he can barely approximate is the eye.

His body may have Senju cells in it but he is nowhere near the body of a true sage and his spirit although cunning will probably be swept by the immense hatred of the Jyuubi.

Then there's that stone Madara was talking about.
There's no telling what sort of secrets it had that Madara didn't reveal.
Perhaps, the sage left behind the knowledge of his techniques, and how to deal with the Juubi, in the unfortunate event of it's return.

After seeing how the Uchiha ended up and how misinformed they were about the fact that there are others that can control the Kyuubi aka the Uzumaki I have to say that the Uchihas were most likely incapable of understanding the contents of that tablet.

Not completely. Madara said that the Sharingan can translate part of it, and that the Rinnegan could read it all.

With the Sharingan and Rinnegan you can read the whole teblet for sure as Madara told the Kages.

But I think panikoskun meant that the Uchiha interpretation would be flawed as they seem to be a hate filled, illogical bunch. They ended up being wiped out despite their considerable abilities and being in possession of the tablet.

You got it bro. The truth is that the entire clan of the Uchiha would most likely incapable of understanding its true meaning.

If there was a clan capable of understanding it then I think the Uzumaki would be the most qualified.